Conversation with #cocoadevhouse

(13:44:13) The topic for #cocoadevhouse is: http://www.cocoadevhouse.org || http://bugreport.apple.com || Feb. 2006 ADC Reference Library Update: https://connect.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MemberSite.woa/wa/getSoftware?fileID=20267&code=REFLIB_EXPDLXCODE
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(15:20:42) rtyler: phildrone: BBEdit?
(15:21:01) phildrone: hey
(15:21:24) phildrone: BBEdit, what?
(15:21:34) rtyler: 13:34 < phildrone> Anyone a BBEdit gawd in here?
(15:22:18) phildrone: Right. I was looking for a way to tidy up an XML doc.
(15:22:48) rtyler: phildrone: heh, that's easy
(15:22:50) rtyler: don't use XML
(15:22:53) ***rtyler ducks :P
(15:22:54) phildrone: Doesn't seem to be a way in BBEdit, at least not that I found.
(15:23:13) phildrone: That's the problem with work ... no choice :)
(15:23:29) rtyler: what kind of XML file?
(15:23:38) phildrone: custom rolled job.
(15:23:51) phildrone: Defines experiments.
(15:23:53) zac: did xmllint not work?
(15:24:20) phildrone: Haven't tried it yet. I got sucked into a code review that went on for hours.
(15:24:22) rtyler: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxTidy.html
(15:24:36) phildrone: Ugliest Java code I've ever seen :(
(15:24:52) rtyler: phildrone: my bad, i'll use the spacebar next time :P
(15:24:55) ***rtyler snickers
(15:24:59) zac: xmllint is good
(15:25:08) zac: I gave it something that had no hope of ever being read
(15:25:10) cks: anyone ever use powerbookresq?
(15:25:28) zac: and got back a beautiful piece of art :)
(15:27:37) rtyler: zac: calling anything XML art, let alone beautiful is a mighty big stretch IMHO
(15:27:45) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is XML
(15:27:46) cocoadevbot: i haven't a clue, rtyler
(15:28:05) rtyler: cocoadevbot: XML is the eXtensible Markup Language
(15:28:06) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(15:28:51) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is BBEdit?
(15:28:52) cocoadevbot: no idea, rtyler
(15:29:04) rtyler: cocoadevbot: BBEdit is a great Mac editor from Bare Bones Software
(15:29:05) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(15:29:25) phildrone: cocoadevbot: who is rtyler?
(15:29:25) cocoadevbot: rtyler is my master
(15:29:49) phildrone: cocoadevbot: rtyler is a man with many opinions.
(15:29:50) cocoadevbot: ...but rtyler is cocoadevbot's master...
(15:30:08) rtyler: phildrone: you have to say first, who is rtyler
(15:30:12) rtyler: then it gives you an answer
(15:30:25) rtyler: then you say "no, cocoadevbot, rtyler is a super awesome guy"
(15:30:46) rtyler: and that teaches it the new bit of info
(15:30:59) rtyler: cocoadevbot: who is phildrone?
(15:31:00) cocoadevbot: rtyler: no idea
(15:31:04) rtyler: cocoadevbot: who is phildron1?
(15:31:05) cocoadevbot: phildron1 is a Yahooligan...
(15:31:12) rtyler: cocoadevbot: phildrone is a Yahooligan too
(15:31:13) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(15:31:16) rtyler: who is phildrone
(15:31:16) cocoadevbot: i heard phildrone was a Yahooligan too
(15:31:55) rtyler: no, cocoadevbot, phildrone is a guy who works for Yahoo!
(15:31:56) cocoadevbot: okay, rtyler.
(15:31:59) rtyler: who is phildrone
(15:32:00) cocoadevbot: phildrone is a guy who works for Yahoo!
(15:32:48) phildrone: cocoadevbot: who is phildrone?
(15:32:48) cocoadevbot: i guess phildrone is a guy who works for Yahoo!
(15:33:12) phildrone: no, cocoadevbot, phildone is a drone who works for Yahoo!
(15:33:17) rtyler: LOL
(15:33:38) phildrone: cocoadevbot: who is phildrone?
(15:33:39) cocoadevbot: you are a guy who works for Yahoo!
(15:34:02) ***rtyler giggles since phildrone can't spell his own name ^_~
(15:34:06) phildrone: no, cocoadevbot, phildrone is a drone who works for Yahoo!
(15:34:07) cocoadevbot: okay, phildrone.
(15:34:16) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is Yahoo?
(15:34:17) cocoadevbot: no idea, rtyler
(15:34:38) rtyler: cocoadevbot: where is phildrone
(15:34:38) cocoadevbot: hmmm... phildrone is a drone who works for Yahoo!
(15:34:41) zac: cocoadevbot: what is Yahoo!?
(15:34:42) cocoadevbot: no idea, zac
(15:34:44) rtyler: not what, WHERE!
(15:35:01) rtyler: cocoadevbot: slashdot headlines
(15:35:03) cocoadevbot: Slashdot - Updated 2006-02-13 21:20:00 | Intel and Skype Exclude AMD | Using Watermarks to Combat Piracy | Microsoft to Replace Blackberry? | Essential PHP Security
(15:35:14) rtyler: PHP Security? Oxymoron? :-P
(15:36:53) rtyler: cocoadevbot: an ICBM is apparently an "intel chip based mac"
(15:36:54) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(15:37:04) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what's an ICBM?
(15:37:04) cocoadevbot: i think an ICBM is apparently an "intel chip based mac"
(15:37:15) rtyler: good dog
(15:38:08) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is .NET
(15:38:09) cocoadevbot: rtyler: wish i knew
(15:38:20) rtyler: cocoadevbot: .NET is evil, nothing more, nothing less
(15:38:20) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(15:38:23) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is .NET
(15:38:24) cocoadevbot: hmmm... .NET is evil, nothing more, nothing less
(15:38:28) rtyler: I agree
(15:39:35) zac: phildrone: do you know if there are any cocoa internships at that yahoo place?
(15:39:44) zac: (do I have to do the !...?)
(15:40:00) rtyler: zac: yes, always
(15:40:01) rtyler: !
(15:40:07) phildrone: There are internships definitely. Yahoo! recruits for their internships out of TopCoder.
(15:40:20) phildrone: Cocoa I don't know about in specific.
(15:40:30) rtyler: that's lame, I do terribly with TopCoder
(15:40:39) rtyler: I like to think I can code well, as opposed to fast ;)
(15:41:16) phildrone: I don't think they were all that concerned with rank. Just that you were there and had participated and did reasonably well.
(15:41:29) phildrone: i.e., actually knew how to code.
(15:42:15) phildrone: We had two interns in our group last summer. One was great, one was um, not so great (to put it nicely).
(15:43:21) phildrone: So it's a toss up no matter how you slice it.
(15:43:27) zac: what do you mean by great?
(15:44:03) rtyler: zac: he cured cancer
(15:44:08) ***rtyler chuckles
(15:44:36) phildrone: Could write up a spec, code it, and actually listened when we told him to do stuff :)
(15:44:53) rtyler: phildrone: IMHO, that's how
(15:44:58) rtyler: it's supposed to go ;)
(15:45:24) rtyler: phildrone: I can't stand co-workers that....leave parts of that out
(15:45:25) phildrone: IMHO :)
(15:45:36) rtyler: like say, the "write up spec" or the "listening" part :-P
(15:45:55) phildrone: Oy.
(15:45:59) phildrone: I could write a book.
(15:46:06) rtyler: I wish there was some label in our SCM system, to where we could just tag their commits as "haxx haxx haxx" and not give them too much credit
(15:46:23) zac: i've never heard of TopCoder
(15:46:35) phildrone: Neither had I.
(15:46:48) ***rtyler has
(15:46:52) rtyler: Google + TopCoder ftw
(15:47:17) cks: just went to the topcoder site, it looks very, very lame. like what a bunch of corporate recruiting hacks would do with a shdh sort of thing
(15:47:18) rtyler: cocoadevbot: TopCoder is a site that hosts online programming competitions
(15:47:18) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(15:47:31) rtyler: cks: that's about right ;)
(15:48:09) cks: speaking of which, was blake rounding people up earlier for early march?
(15:48:18) zac: yeah, yahoo! is probably missing out on some good coders
(15:48:20) zac: yep
(15:48:22) zac: march 4th
(15:48:23) phildrone: cks: sounds about right.
(15:48:27) zac: in dallas
(15:48:32) rtyler: march 4th in Dallas eh?
(15:48:35) ***rtyler ponders
(15:48:55) zac: so we actually try and make something at these things?
(15:49:03) rtyler: make something in terms of?
(15:49:12) rtyler: ZOMG WE NEED PROJECTS!!1 :-P
(15:49:52) cks: zac: check this out: http://superhappydevhouse.org/UserStories, pbwiki origin story...
(15:50:05) cks: that's the expectation level :-)
(15:50:31) rtyler: :-o
(15:50:39) rtyler: what are we going to make that has lots of monies?
(15:51:21) cks: usefullness to the world, not necessarily $$$
(15:51:22) zac: the slut-o-meter is a great fucking idea
(15:53:05) phildrone: command-line browser.
(15:53:14) rtyler: links, lynx, etc ;)
(15:53:22) phildrone: command-line driven browser (not on the command line)
(15:54:14) jakedahn: port slut-o-meter to cocoa!
(15:54:57) zac: http://zacwhite.com/blog/
(15:55:03) zac: there is an idea we could roll with
(15:56:21) cks: yeah, actually, i was planning to work on something like that, but not limit it to audio and text. can synch flickr pictures, del.icio.us, etc, etc, etc
(15:56:37) cks: got kicked off at the barcampdallas followon mashpit
(15:56:46) blakestar: rtyler: you coming to dallas on 4th?
(15:57:10) cks: http://artofsystems.blogspot.com/2006/01/barspy.html
(15:57:12) phildrone: zac: that's freaky ... I wrote very nearly the same thing.
(15:57:15) phildrone: http://www.hinkty.com/blogger/2005/11/video-message-board.html
(15:57:24) rtyler: http://cocoadevhouse.pbwiki.com/DallasIdeas
(15:57:37) phildrone: But not so much for note taking, but that's a great use.
(15:57:47) blakestar: zac: I forgot to mention barspy earlier
(15:58:21) cks: very cool. the intention was to make barspy initially a web application, but i think it's going to need to be a "real" app sooner rather than later
(15:58:26) rtyler has changed the topic to: http://www.cocoadevhouse.org || http://bugreport.apple.com || Feb. 2006 ADC Reference Library Update: https://connect.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MemberSite.woa/wa/getSoftware?fileID=20267&code=REFLIB_EXPDLXCODE || Add ideas for the March 4th Meeting http://cocoadevhouse.pbwiki.com/DallasIdeas
(15:58:26) blakestar: your recorder reminds me
(15:58:35) cks: lots of very similiar ideas floating around, which is a good sign
(15:58:46) zac: the main idea isn't a real leap
(15:58:50) rtyler: add ideas to the wiki!
(15:58:51) rtyler: :D
(15:58:57) zac: but ways to represent the data is the cool part
(15:59:02) zac: where you can really innovate
(15:59:24) zac: that is one cool thing about this idea...it is pretty simple to get the data in the program
(15:59:30) cks: ways to represent the data, plus the ability to use web services to do most of the work, and have the app just correlate and present stuff
(15:59:42) rtyler: zac: the wiki is saying that you have a lock on the TylerBallance page
(15:59:44) rtyler: bastard! ;)
(16:00:00) rtyler: cks: web services? wahoo!
(16:00:03) ***rtyler <3 web services
(16:00:06) zac: wtf..
(16:00:17) cks: for barspy, at least, the idea is that you don't have to be using it to contribute data to the stream, people can be on irc, using flickr, or whatever
(16:00:31) cks: rtyler: any particular reason?
(16:00:50) zac: steal the lock
(16:01:08) rtyler: cks: http://bleepsoft.com/ look at CocoaMC ;)
(16:01:17) rtyler: I'm using web services more and more these days ;)
(16:01:32) jakedahn: rtyler: get any more work done on mantix?
(16:01:53) rtyler: jakedahn: I know why it's crashing ^_^
(16:02:05) rtyler: jakedahn: trying to convince a friend to write bugzilla SOAP web services
(16:02:10) jakedahn: well, fix it up so i can break it!
(16:02:23) jakedahn: sweet!
(16:02:32) cks: ahhh, it's a heart. <3, i'm obviously completely out-of-touch smiley-wise
(16:03:18) jakedahn: uh, who does Amazon use to ship?
(16:03:25) rtyler: FedExd?
(16:05:52) blakestar: USPS for books on regular delivery
(16:06:02) blakestar: UPS otherwise
(16:06:13) jakedahn: aight
(16:06:16) jakedahn: :-\
(16:06:55) zac: so is there any talk of actually selling whatever we make?
(16:06:59) zac: for the organization of course...
(16:07:22) jakedahn: no...
(16:07:25) blakestar: from mashpit, the theme was open collab
(16:07:25) zac: I guess probably open sourcing it would make more sense
(16:07:27) jakedahn: make it open source damnit!!\
(16:07:29) zac: and having a tipjar
(16:07:52) blakestar: cks: thoughts on that
(16:08:40) blakestar: I got called the capitalist at mashpit review ;)
(16:10:26) jakedahn: lol
(16:10:35) zac: btw, I know an icon guy who would probably be willing to contribute
(16:10:51) zac: he couldn't come to the meeting, but he could be there in a virtual sense :)
(16:12:11) blakestar: zac: would he like to hack the CocoaDevHouse logo?
(16:12:37) blakestar: jakedahn and I both posted for help in re-drawing it
(16:12:46) zac: oh, where is the post?
(16:13:09) zac: I see, nevermind
(16:13:36) rtyler: zac: Fernando?
(16:13:36) cks: not sure about shdh tradition, certainly pbwiki is a commercial thing, but i think it was one person
(16:13:45) zac: yeah
(16:13:50) zac: rtyler: yeah
(16:14:04) rtyler: zac: well, he's going to be offline for a week, and after that, as much as I've been told is that he's swamped
(16:14:12) blakestar: zac: on the wiki and
(16:14:23) zac: oh yeah
(16:14:31) blakestar: http://www.flickr.com/groups/cocoadevhouse/discuss/176691/
(16:14:41) rtyler: blakestar: I'm going to vote open source, that makes post meeting collaboration easier ;)
(16:14:56) blakestar: cks: it was David Weekly
(16:15:14) jakedahn: http://cocoadevhouse.pbwiki.com/f/cocoadevhousefin-intel.psd
(16:15:22) jakedahn: that is the psd of the logo if ya want it
(16:16:09) pmade left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(16:16:19) cks: i suspect it's whatever people want to do. intention with anything i work on is that it be open source, under an apache-ish license, and with no strings attached. on the other hand, i might want to go productize stuff (add services, packaging, support, extra plugins, etc)
(16:16:31) cks: but that's just me
(16:16:37) blakestar: second that
(16:17:19) blakestar: some things would make more sense open or commercial
(16:18:07) rtyler: cks: I'm on the same level as you ;)
(16:18:13) ***rtyler is a poor entrepreneuer ;)
(16:20:51) blakestar: it would be interesting to see ideas started in dallas to get picked up and continued in Boston and NYC
(16:21:05) blakestar: snowball
(16:23:24) rtyler: blakestar: start cranking out ideas :P
(16:26:57) phildrone: On a smaller scale, it would be cool to build out a "stupid interface tricks" style website. It has always bothered me that Apple adds some new widget to an application but it's not included in the Cocoa library. We build those interface widgets for developers to just use.
(16:30:12) blakestar: rtyler: I better since I won't be cranking out any code ;)
(16:30:47) blakestar: joins #learningcocoa :)
(16:32:22) rtyler: cocoadevbot: who is blakestar
(16:32:22) cocoadevbot: somebody said blakestar was the host of the Cocoa Radio podcast
(16:32:27) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is Cocoa
(16:32:28) cocoadevbot: Cocoa is the Mac OS X API built on top of Objective-C, originating from NeXT
(16:32:34) rtyler: blakestar: there, that's all you need to know
(16:32:47) blakestar: heh
(16:32:50) blakestar: nice
(16:33:00) blakestar: who teaches cocoadevbot?
(16:33:08) rtyler: we all do
(16:33:12) rtyler: just tell him something like this:
(16:33:21) rtyler: cocoadevbot: the weather is nice
(16:33:21) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(16:33:25) rtyler: cocoadevbot: how is the weather?
(16:33:26) cocoadevbot: the weather is nice
(16:33:28) rtyler: :)
(16:33:47) blakestar: cocoadevbot: what is barspy?
(16:33:48) cocoadevbot: i don't know, blakestar
(16:33:52) zac is now known as zac|away
(16:34:12) blakestar: what?!
(16:34:25) blakestar: cocoadevbot: sounds moody
(16:34:25) cocoadevbot: blakestar: huh?
(16:34:34) rtyler: blakestar: tell it "barspy is $SOMETHING"
(16:34:37) jakedahn: oh, news update on jitbot
(16:34:44) jakedahn: doesnt work with windows either
(16:34:48) jakedahn: gets the same error
(16:34:54) jakedahn: next try on linux...
(16:34:55) rtyler: jakedahn: weird...
(16:35:29) rtyler: cocoadevbot: jibot is inferior to you
(16:35:29) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler.
(16:35:33) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is jibot
(16:35:33) cocoadevbot: jibot is inferior to you
(16:35:46) rtyler: no, cocoadevbot, jibot is inferioer to cocoadevbot
(16:35:46) cocoadevbot: okay, rtyler.
(16:35:48) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is jibot
(16:35:49) cocoadevbot: jibot is inferioer to cocoadevbot
(16:36:00) rtyler: no, cocoadevbot, jibot is inferior to cocoadevbot
(16:36:01) cocoadevbot: okay, rtyler.
(16:36:06) rtyler: damn typos
(16:37:38) You are now known as cks|away
(16:39:18) blakestar: some ideas for barspy: http://www.37signals.com/svn/images/campfireshot.png
(16:39:45) rtyler: wtf is this?
(16:39:47) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(16:39:50) blakestar: hehe
(16:39:54) rtyler: RATS!@
(16:40:01) blakestar: their next great thing
(16:40:04) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(16:40:10) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is Cocoa
(16:40:10) cocoadevbot: it has been said that Cocoa is the Mac OS X API built on top of Objective-C, originating from NeXT
(16:40:14) rtyler: whew, good
(16:40:18) rtyler: the data's still saved
(16:40:21) rtyler: cocoadevbot: what is barspy
(16:40:22) cocoadevbot: rtyler: bugger all, i dunno
(16:40:25) blakestar: irc for corp / hoi polloi
(16:40:29) rtyler: blakestar: tell him what barspy is ;)
(16:40:30) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(16:40:38) rtyler: bloody hell, SIGSEGV
(16:41:15) blakestar: he's gone
(16:41:42) rtyler: seg faulted irc bot
(16:41:43) blakestar: is gone
(16:41:51) blakestar: ...leaving
(16:42:13) blakestar: rtyler: you'll be here on 4th?
(16:42:42) blakestar: watch and learn :p http://www.37signals.com/svn/images/campfiretranscripts.mov
(16:43:20) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(16:45:22) zac|away is now known as zac
(16:45:23) rtyler: cocoadevbot: SIGSEGV is what you do when you're a dirty bot
(16:45:23) cocoadevbot: rtyler: i don't know
(16:45:38) rtyler: cocoadevbot: you suck
(16:45:38) cocoadevbot: rtyler: i'm not following you...
(16:46:06) rtyler: that's because you suck
(16:46:10) rtyler: blakestar: that mov crashed opera
(16:46:13) rtyler: thanks a lot ;)
(16:47:30) zac: it crashed safari too
(16:47:37) phildrone: Crashed Quicktime here.
(16:47:41) zac: it must be crashing the quicktime plugin
(16:47:43) rtyler: LOL
(16:47:48) rtyler: crashed firefox here
(16:47:51) rtyler: FUCKING MOV
(16:48:05) rtyler: blakestar: thaks a lot for crashing our browsers
(16:48:07) rtyler: :-P
(16:48:44) blakestar: IE is you prob ;)
(16:48:44) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(16:49:19) blakestar: just making sure y'all are listening
(16:51:07) hdcool: heh, that mov made safari crash
(16:56:36) mode (-o blakestar ) by rtyler
(16:56:43) rtyler: no more @ hat for blake
(16:56:49) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(16:57:10) phildrone: Dude, talk about dropping a grenade in #cocoadevhouse :)
(16:57:17) rtyler: HEH
(17:01:34) hdcool left the room (quit: ).
(17:40:33) You are now known as cks
(17:41:30) cks: ok, despite reading through the log and seeing that the mov crashed everybody's browsers, i was still somehow suprised when it crashed mine
(17:42:27) phildrone: As a noted scientist, it was quite surprising that *she* blinded me with science. SCIENCE.
(17:43:14) cgriego left the room.
(17:44:56) cks: cocoadevbot: what is campfire?
(17:44:57) cocoadevbot: i don't know, cks
(17:45:35) cks: cocoadevbot: campfire is the nine millionth browser-based chat system
(17:45:36) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(17:45:59) cks: it's not a very stable day here on cocoadevhouse
(17:48:14) phildrone: Must be written in c++ :)
(17:59:57) rtyler|powerbook: Perl
(17:59:57) rtyler|powerbook: even worse
(18:00:34) jakedahn: hater..
(18:02:06) rtyler|powerbook: jakedahn: n00b :P
(18:02:14) rtyler|powerbook: here's my super duper idea for the cocoadevhouse project
(18:02:42) jakedahn: bring it hater...
(18:02:43) rtyler|powerbook: http://codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/index.html
(18:02:50) rtyler|powerbook: SubEthaEdit is no longer free for non-commercial use
(18:02:54) rtyler|powerbook: OpenEthaEdit
(18:02:59) rtyler|powerbook: a CocoaDevHouse production
(18:03:05) jakedahn: http://suchy.rushpost.com/superduper.htm
(18:03:12) jakedahn: and it could be at superduper.com
(18:03:14) jakedahn: :)
(18:03:21) rtyler|powerbook: blech, how about no
(18:03:23) rtyler|powerbook: :-P
(18:03:23) jakedahn: http://superduper.com/
(18:04:00) jakedahn: SuperDuperEdit
(18:04:26) rtyler|powerbook: I'm going to slap you :-P
(18:06:29) ***jakedahn ducks
(18:06:40) ***jakedahn slaps rtyler
(18:06:45) ***jakedahn runs for the hills
(18:06:49) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone,blakestar, cks: what do you think?
(18:07:08) ***jakedahn pulls out the air guitar and starts shreddin to that one iron maiden song
(18:07:37) zac: think of what?
(18:07:43) zac: copying subethaedit?
(18:07:46) zac: I don't like it
(18:07:52) zac: surely we can come up with something original
(18:07:53) rtyler|powerbook: not copying
(18:08:10) rtyler|powerbook: zac: we can use the idea and create a derivative
(18:08:16) rtyler|powerbook: collaborative notes &stuff
(18:08:18) jakedahn: still copying
(18:08:22) rtyler|powerbook: rich text format collaboration
(18:08:26) phildrone: I agree, we want to support cocoa developers not cut them off at the knees.
(18:08:49) rtyler|powerbook: this i'm aware of, but I'm a bit turned off by the free version disappearing
(18:08:53) zac: I think there are some cool ideas for doing collaboration with our app...
(18:08:59) zac: or rather my app idea
(18:09:03) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(18:09:04) zac: (that everyone else has too)
(18:09:35) zac: like having a Audipad server that allows for lots of people to take notes on an event
(18:09:39) phildrone: Hmmm, the rich-text idea isn't bad though. Just stay away from source code editing.
(18:09:40) zac: and then upload their notes
(18:09:49) zac: and you can see what other people wrote at that point in time
(18:10:26) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: that's actually one of my biggest all time gripes about SubEtha, I wanted to edit rich text sometimes
(18:10:27) zac: or just doing it peer to peer, over rendezvous
(18:10:31) rtyler|powerbook: Bonjour!
(18:10:34) phildrone: Yup.
(18:10:35) zac: oh, sorry
(18:10:36) zac: ...
(18:10:39) rtyler|powerbook: wait
(18:10:42) ***rtyler|powerbook checks his watch
(18:10:44) jakedahn: i say yall take on apple head on... and make a media player!
(18:10:46) rtyler|powerbook: I meant Bonsoir!
(18:10:52) rtyler|powerbook: jakedahn: quiet you
(18:10:54) rtyler|powerbook: :-P
(18:10:59) jakedahn: never
(18:11:59) rtyler|powerbook: [ 86] statement: <cks> campfire is the nine millionth browser-based chat system
(18:11:59) rtyler|powerbook: [ 87] enter: <cks> campfire =is=> the nine millionth browser-based chat system
(18:11:59) rtyler|powerbook: Segmentation fault (core dumped)
(18:11:59) rtyler|powerbook: $
(18:12:05) rtyler|powerbook: STUPID fscking perl bot
(18:13:51) rtyler|powerbook: zac: what about a more user oriented collaboration tool
(18:14:07) rtyler|powerbook: rich text based, targeted at collabarative note taking, for example
(18:14:25) zac: I really would like to tie in time for some reason
(18:14:59) rtyler|powerbook: care to explain the reason? :-P
(18:15:10) zac: so everyone can take notes for themselves and maybe attach some pictures
(18:15:23) zac: and then via bonjour, you can see a summary of what everyone wrote
(18:15:27) zac: and play back the event
(18:15:46) zac: blah blah wrote this:
(18:15:55) rtyler|powerbook: I like the idea
(18:15:56) zac: "This is cool!"
(18:16:02) zac: foo bar wrote this:
(18:16:04) zac: "this is stupid!"
(18:16:06) rtyler|powerbook: attaching pictures might be hard though, RTFD is a weird setup :-P
(18:16:19) zac: RTFD?
(18:16:28) phildrone: It's very cool, I wanted to do video, but basically it's the same concept.
(18:16:41) zac: yeah
(18:16:48) zac: we could also record audio
(18:16:51) rtyler|powerbook: collarborative video? :-p
(18:16:51) phildrone: podcasting - pop up.
(18:17:02) rtyler|powerbook: the idea of "attaching" audio to the document is a good one
(18:17:05) rtyler|powerbook: a somewhat complicated one
(18:17:05) zac: i'm going to ponder this while in french class
(18:17:06) phildrone: It's like a message board for podcasting.
(18:17:11) zac: and I have to go there now
(18:17:12) zac: ttl
(18:17:15) rtyler|powerbook: ciao zac
(18:17:17) phildrone: Or comments for podcasting.
(18:17:28) zac is now known as zac|frenchclass
(18:17:30) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: what about, say, a file format ".cocoadevhouse"
(18:17:37) rtyler|powerbook: which is really an application bundle
(18:17:40) phildrone: .cdh
(18:17:44) rtyler|powerbook: heh, or that ;)
(18:17:50) rtyler|powerbook: inside the application bundle
(18:17:55) phildrone: Ah, right.
(18:17:59) rtyler|powerbook: we have Images/
(18:18:00) rtyler|powerbook: Audio/
(18:18:04) rtyler|powerbook: then index.html
(18:18:24) rtyler|powerbook: so we can trivially embed the audio and images into the document, use WebView to rewrite specific data inside the web view
(18:18:36) rtyler|powerbook: almost like a CocoaWiki :-P
(18:18:43) rtyler|powerbook: except bonjour-collaborative
(18:19:23) phildrone: Would we be editing other people's comments, or just posting our own?
(18:19:50) rtyler|powerbook: not like a wiki in that sense
(18:19:56) rtyler|powerbook: a wiki in the terms of a collaborative editor
(18:20:43) rtyler|powerbook: So the .cdh document bundle would look as follows
(18:20:47) rtyler|powerbook: % ls document.cdh/
(18:20:49) rtyler|powerbook: Images/
(18:20:50) cks: my working theory going forward is that applications are just fancy interfaces to web services, no local storage of anything, even preferences. not true, of course, but it's a fun point of view to live inside for a while
(18:20:53) rtyler|powerbook: Audio/
(18:20:56) rtyler|powerbook: Data/
(18:20:58) rtyler|powerbook: index.html
(18:21:15) rtyler|powerbook: cks: it sucks though, if you need to be offline, or have a shitty ISP
(18:21:17) ***rtyler|powerbook has a shitty ISP
(18:21:18) cks: ahhh
(18:21:20) cks: but...
(18:21:26) cks: if you've got a good set of api's
(18:21:42) cks: then the web services could be running locally, even inside the same process
(18:21:53) cks: assuming your web service client is clever
(18:21:59) rtyler|powerbook: but then you have to run a web server locally...
(18:22:03) cks: nah
(18:22:41) cks: you'd write a driver on top of the file system, for example, and get your app bundle back, intercept the calls before they actually become soap
(18:23:00) rtyler|powerbook: that seems like such an overcomplication of a simple application though
(18:23:17) cks: eh, if the soap stack is any good it's actually pretty easy
(18:24:10) cks: like i said, though, it's a point of view i inhabit sometimes
(18:24:35) rtyler|powerbook: have you written anything involving web services yet? I mean, end to end, with the SOAP web services (Perl, PHP, etc), to the Cocoa glue code to those web services, to the Cocoa app itself?
(18:24:40) rtyler|powerbook: it's a bit complicated, promise :-P
(18:25:12) cks: no with cocoa, but i spend a couple years working on a commercial soap stack, we helped with a bunch of similiar architectures for clients
(18:25:47) cks: need to do some research, but i'm stuck till my powerbook gets fixed
(18:26:30) rtyler|powerbook: well, cks, the problem I have with your theory is that web services inherently rely on a server-client architechture, to where the $SERVER is doing a lot of the data crunching, and just returning the applicable SOAP set
(18:26:36) rtyler|powerbook: SOAP data-set*
(18:27:17) phildrone: Why not distributed objects? (ducks)
(18:27:29) cks: well, the terms "web service" get used two ways: (a) any soap service or (b) in particular, ajaxy web clients
(18:27:30) phildrone: My nemesis.
(18:27:58) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: to pull of such an application, distributed objects would be necessary AFAIK ;)
(18:28:00) phildrone: (c) ReST services.
(18:28:02) cks: i'm mainly speaking to (a), which means it's a standard rpc problem, there's no inherent assumption of lots of processing on the server
(18:28:30) cks: (c) == (a), i'll change it to be "rpc over the web" and ignore protocol/philosophy
(18:28:43) phildrone: Cool.
(18:28:45) rtyler|powerbook: cks: but without a server doing some form of processing and returning SOAP data sets, it doesn't seem to make sense to use web services at all
(18:29:15) cks: it's not about web services so much, as storing all data "in the natural place"
(18:29:27) cks: but possibly caching it locally for practicality
(18:29:37) cks: for example, pictures should be stored on flickr, and noplace else
(18:29:45) cks: video should be on google, and no place else
(18:30:09) cks: links on del.icio.us, comments live in blogs, etc.
(18:30:33) cks: again, it's a point of view for looking at problems, not an argument that the theory always applies everywhere...
(18:31:14) rtyler|powerbook: "cks
(18:31:14) rtyler|powerbook: for example, pictures should be stored on flickr, and noplace else"
(18:31:21) rtyler|powerbook: are you referring to the collaboration idea?
(18:31:26) phildrone: I'm feeling a peer-to-peer client-server discussion coming on :)
(18:31:42) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: run, while you still can ;)
(18:31:45) rtyler|powerbook: oh, by the way guys
(18:31:47) cks: yes, that's the architecture for "event mirror", which may turn out to be barspy, or maybe not
(18:31:55) rtyler|powerbook: the plate, in the microwave, is fucking hot, use the oven mitts
(18:31:58) ***rtyler|powerbook sighs
(18:32:43) rtyler|powerbook: alright, seriously, wtf is barspy already?
(18:33:01) cks: http://artofsystems.blogspot.com/2006/01/barspy.html
(18:33:16) cks: or google it, i'm sure it's made its way into the indexes by now
(18:33:43) cks: idea is that all digitally recorded info is timestamped and (aproximately) geolocated and tagged
(18:33:55) rtyler|powerbook: barspy would be MUCH easier, and more logical to do with web services ;)
(18:34:20) cks: so it should be possible to "play back" the conference, like they do in military sims, or deep-sea expeditions, or lots of other stuff
(18:34:27) cks: not a new idea
(18:34:41) rtyler|powerbook: heh
(18:35:05) cks: but also participate remotely while the conference is in progress, or particpate after the fact, by adding tags/comments/etc
(18:35:19) rtyler|powerbook: heh, I remotely participated in BarCampDallas ^_^
(18:35:27) cks: there we god :
(18:35:30) cks: go :-)
(18:35:40) phildrone: Is there a get-it-working-mostly-in-a-weekend requirement in place here?
(18:35:55) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: I vote no ;)
(18:36:05) phildrone: Ah, ok. Just wondering.
(18:36:13) cks: i think it turns in "get something significant done", whethere that's working or not, it's up to participants to decide
(18:36:29) cks: but no rules, right? it's just whatever
(18:36:57) phildrone: I just wanted to get a handle on any scale requirements.
(18:37:00) rtyler|powerbook: i'm a fan o fthe channel project idea, given that getting to Dallas is no easy task
(18:37:10) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: it must be perfect, that's the only requirement... :-P
(18:37:55) cks: and everybody doesn't actually have to work on the same thing, i mean, i have some ideas i want to work on around other people in a good environment
(18:38:10) cks: which may or may not correspond exactly to what others are interested in
(18:38:20) rtyler|powerbook: cks: are you suggesting barspy as an AJAX thing, or cocoaliciously cocoa app?
(18:38:32) cks: there are limits with ajax, especially with media handling
(18:38:46) phildrone: This is cocoadevhouse.
(18:38:51) cks: lots of problems, i think for a really first-class user experience it has to be a real app
(18:39:17) rtyler|powerbook: cks: then it's a reasonably simple application to setup IMHO
(18:39:21) cks: and, because i listened to all the cocoaradio interviews, i'm convinced targetin the mac initially is the way to go with any thick client
(18:39:54) rtyler|powerbook: somebody writes PHP/SOAP web services (NuSOAP!), tacks some scripts to automagically setup a website, or something
(18:39:57) rtyler|powerbook: we write the rich client
(18:40:13) rtyler|powerbook: with autolinkage to flickr for photos, google for video, and riaa.org for audio? :-P
(18:40:26) cks: esp riaa
(18:41:00) cks: yeah, it's actually a bit trickier, for instance: the timestamps are not synchronized in any real way, so there are lots of fiddly little offsets to deal with
(18:41:15) rtyler|powerbook: timestamps occur on the server
(18:41:22) rtyler|powerbook: and trickle down from there
(18:41:26) rtyler|powerbook: whenever there is an edit operation
(18:41:40) rtyler|powerbook: SOAP service sets a lock BOOL on a MySQL record
(18:41:50) rtyler|powerbook: other SOAP edit ops check for lock BOOL
(18:41:50) cks: ahhh, but what if somebody posts to flickr without using the app?
(18:42:00) rtyler|powerbook: then they're n00bs? :-P
(18:42:10) rtyler|powerbook: why can't they just add the link anyways?
(18:42:21) rtyler|powerbook: since the application would just facilitate posting and linking to Flickr anyways
(18:42:22) phildrone: I disagree. I'd like to be able to set the timestamp (especially if I want to associate a comment to a particular point in say a cocoaradio audio file) for example. It doesn't have to be *all* real-time.
(18:43:02) cks: anyway, the trick isn't the technology, that's mostly painful-but-no-rocket-science fiddly bits
(18:43:05) cks: it's the user experience
(18:43:15) rtyler|powerbook: that's easy, we're talking Cocoa here ;)
(18:43:34) cks: heh, i bet i could manage a crappy user experience in _any_ framework :-)
(18:44:01) phildrone: I'd really like to see it start simple simple. Adding comments to an audio file is a really good place to start.
(18:44:19) cks: gotta run, back later
(18:44:22) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: that actually seems to be a more complicated bit IMO
(18:44:24) You are now known as cks|dinner
(18:44:43) rtyler|powerbook: how would you tag it?
(18:44:55) phildrone: But that's a subset of the larger picture, or did I miss something?
(18:45:11) phildrone: timestamp.
(18:45:52) phildrone: Think namespace. If I specify the "namespace" as a particular audio file, then the timestamps would be relative to that.
(18:46:11) rtyler|powerbook: are you talking about a timestamp relative to a certain time IN the audio file?
(18:46:17) phildrone: Yes.
(18:46:33) phildrone: (elapsed time)
(18:47:04) rtyler|powerbook: and how would you implement this?
(18:49:09) rtyler|powerbook: a GREAT way to display it, would be in terms of flags, along an audio timeline (think GarageBand) which is then overlayed on the longer "BarCamp" timeline
(18:49:12) rtyler|powerbook: (for example)
(18:49:19) phildrone: First as a single person application. Your notes are stored with a timestamp attribute. As the player plays the audio file it simply displays the note at the appropriate time.
(18:49:42) phildrone: Exactly.
(18:50:16) phildrone: The audio file could have its own timestamp in a larger "namespace" context.
(18:50:55) phildrone: We could have rules for displaying the note. Pops for x number of seconds then fades. Pops then remains etc etc etc.
(18:51:19) phildrone: Highlights as you scroll over the time dimension etc.
(18:51:32) rtyler|powerbook: hrm, I think barspy is a good derivative idea from te RichTextCollaboration thing :-P
(18:52:14) phildrone: They're two heads of the same beast though.
(18:53:30) rtyler|powerbook: well, the barspy seems VERY network intensive, and "right" for a web-based application
(18:53:53) rtyler|powerbook: the collaboration.app idea is reasonably network intensive, and "right" for a LAN based app, for example
(18:54:49) phildrone: barspy smells like an enterprise style app to me (so I agree with you). It feels like it's trying to do too much. That's why I was leaning towards trying to do a more focused thing.
(18:56:29) rtyler|powerbook: audio file commenting?
(18:57:01) phildrone: audio file rich-text collaborative commenting :) But to start, audio file commenting.
(18:58:01) rtyler|powerbook: aw man, I'd rather start at the rich text end :-P
(18:59:54) phildrone: Cool with me. Leave off the audio timeline, but leave in the concept of segmenting the document by timestamp?
(19:01:05) rtyler|powerbook: well, that brings the concept to my mind, a document with an edit history, a la Wikipedia
(19:01:07) rtyler|powerbook: or, how?
(19:03:29) phildrone: Imagine a timestamp in front of every one of these comments here in the irc window. Now each one could be a point of collaboration between multiple users (each with its own document history if we want to go there).
(19:03:46) You are now known as cks
(19:03:46) rtyler|powerbook: and if lines are deleted?
(19:03:56) phildrone: They're deleted.
(19:04:15) rtyler|powerbook: timestamp and all?
(19:04:25) phildrone: Sure.
(19:04:47) rtyler|powerbook: gotcha
(19:05:42) cks: i've got a demo that plays back quicktime, using the quicktime dom inteface to grab timestamps, and then plays back irc comments from a log, it's easy stuff, should be even easier in an app
(19:05:48) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: do we want to open source Collaborate.app? :-P
(19:05:50) ***rtyler|powerbook likes that name
(19:08:01) cks: so, the theme of dallas cocoadevhouse #1 is "time and collaboration"
(19:09:15) rtyler|powerbook: cks: can you add that to the DallasIdeas page? :_P
(19:13:40) rtyler|powerbook has changed the topic to: http://www.cocoadevhouse.org || Report Bugs!: http://bugreport.apple.com || Add ideas for the March 4th Meeting http://cocoadevhouse.pbwiki.com/DallasIdeas
(19:15:11) phildrone: Just to be clear, there's two timestamps in play here. There's the reference timestamp that partitions the larger document. And then there are the timestamps of the collaboration contributions.
(19:15:51) phildrone: In other words I can comment at time y on an event that happened at time x.
(19:16:31) cks: and view the playback indexed by either one
(19:17:22) cks: hmm, the dallas stuff is kinda spread out all over the place, i think some refactoring is in order
(19:17:44) rtyler|powerbook: cks: edit away! ;)
(19:17:49) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: you any good with UI mockups?
(19:18:13) phildrone: Ehhhh.
(19:18:41) cks: THEME: Time and Collaboration. Geolocation is old hat, time is the new black (just don't call it When 2.0). Join us for an code-based exploration of the possibilities in moving along, warping and annotating the time-axis.
(19:18:48) phildrone: I'm afraid I'm a pencil and paper guy.
(19:19:01) rtyler|powerbook: cks: NICE :)
(19:19:42) You need to be a channel operator to do that
(19:20:12) cks: rtyler: /topic http://www.cocoadevhouse.org || Report Bugs!: http://bugreport.apple.com || Add ideas for the March 4th Meeting http://cocoadevhouse.pbwiki.com/CocoaDevHouseDallas, i'm zapping the ideas page and moving it to just be on the dallas page
(19:22:55) rtyler|powerbook has changed the topic to: http://www.cocoadevhouse.org || Report Bugs!: http://bugreport.apple.com || Add ideas for the March 4th Meeting http://cocoadevhouse.pbwiki.com/CocoaDevHouseDallas, i'm zapping the ideas page and moving it to just be on the dallas page
(19:25:07) phildrone: Gotta run.
(19:25:23) cks: are there online irc logs?
(19:25:56) rtyler|powerbook: cks: I can save one? :)
(19:26:36) phildrone left the room.
(19:26:44) cks: i refered to the logs when i added the "collaboration.app" item to the ideas section
(19:26:47) cks: ff
(19:27:05) cks: no, rr
(19:27:20) cks: dammit, http has ruined me for spelling "refer"
(19:27:39) rtyler|powerbook: can we stick to "Collaborate.app"" ? :-D
(19:27:59) cks: it's all good...
(19:28:20) cks: changed
(19:28:30) rtyler|powerbook: w00t
(20:00:17) You are now known as cks|away
(21:01:20) zac|frenchclass: what?
(21:01:47) zac|frenchclass: I should have know I would come back and miss the entire design process :\
(21:05:43) zac|frenchclass is now known as zac
(21:15:12) zac_ [n=zac@ip70-189-105-47.ok.ok.cox.net] entered the room.
(21:20:43) zac_: anyone awake?
(21:25:36) zac left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(21:25:45) zac_ left the room (quit: ).
(21:26:04) zac [n=zac@ip70-189-105-47.ok.ok.cox.net] entered the room.
(21:38:01) ***rtyler|powerbook sighs
(21:38:05) rtyler|powerbook: zac: I'm back :)
(21:38:29) zac: ok
(21:38:33) zac: I made a mockup in class
(21:38:41) zac: I have to get it digital though
(21:38:53) zac: I'll take a photo of it
(21:39:03) zac: but then I'm going to make a photoshop mockup
(21:41:56) rtyler|powerbook: okie doke
(21:42:29) zac: so please tell me decisions weren't made
(21:43:16) You are now known as cks
(21:45:00) rtyler|powerbook: zac: we decide to all quit our respective jobs and move to nevada to join a cult
(21:45:11) zac: I'm fine with that
(21:45:22) rtyler|powerbook: zac: want to read the log, or just scroll up or what?
(21:45:33) zac: i sort of read it
(21:45:40) rtyler|powerbook: Collaborate.app will change teh w0rld
(21:45:58) zac: just to point out...audipad is a pretty sweet name
(21:46:02) zac: and audipad.com is not taken
(21:46:20) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(21:47:16) zac: I could check, but I'm pretty sure collaborate.com is taken :)
(21:47:44) rtyler|powerbook: MacCollaborate? :)
(21:47:50) zac: Audipad?
(21:47:55) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(21:48:07) rtyler|powerbook: but that makes it sound like it's focussed on purely audio
(21:49:09) zac: the thing I'm going to show you will be
(21:49:17) zac: tiMedia
(21:49:26) zac: timeDia
(21:49:30) zac: timedia!
(21:50:08) zac: timediax.com isn't taken
(21:50:46) rtyler|powerbook: mock it up yo!
(21:50:57) zac: http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/IMG_1142.JPG
(21:51:06) rtyler|powerbook: I'm going to try to fgure out what was segfaulting cocoadevbot
(21:51:14) zac: so that is basically an audio markup app
(21:51:42) zac: you can flag points in the audio and add a note or image
(21:51:55) zac: or (not really shown there) you can select a whole section of audio to annotate
(21:52:26) zac: where what you type and when is associated with the audio
(21:52:32) rtyler|powerbook: that's a bit different than the Collaborate.app idea
(21:52:38) rtyler|powerbook: same state, different county :-P
(21:52:53) zac: I agree with phil though
(21:52:58) zac: we should start very specific
(21:53:13) zac: an app that accomplishes a very specific task
(21:53:27) zac: a total collaboration solution isn't very specific
(21:56:33) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(21:56:39) rtyler|powerbook: we'll see if he segfaults now
(21:56:44) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who is zac?
(21:56:45) cocoadevbot: somebody said zac was a Cocoa developer and works on SearchMagic
(21:56:52) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is barspy?
(21:56:53) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: wish i knew
(21:57:09) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: barspy is outlined here: http://artofsystems.blogspot.com/2006/01/barspy.html
(21:57:09) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(21:57:12) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is barspy?
(21:57:12) cocoadevbot: it has been said that barspy is outlined here: http://artofsystems.blogspot.com/2006/01/barspy.html
(21:57:18) rtyler|powerbook: good dog
(21:58:19) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is SIGSEGV
(21:58:19) cocoadevbot: i don't know, rtyler|powerbook
(21:59:08) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: seg faulting is when gremlins infect the application's memory, causing it to cry and run away
(21:59:08) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(21:59:13) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is seg faulting?
(21:59:13) cocoadevbot: seg faulting is when gremlins infect the application's memory, causing it to cry and run away
(21:59:18) ***rtyler|powerbook grins
(22:00:16) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who is cks
(22:00:17) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: wish i knew
(22:00:21) rtyler|powerbook: ditto.. :-P
(22:04:37) blakestar left the room (quit: ).
(22:17:46) rtyler|powerbook: cks: barspy seems to be _very_ ambitious...
(22:24:46) phildrone [n=aaronson@c-24-6-93-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] entered the room.
(22:27:35) jakedahn left the room (quit: ).
(22:29:39) ***rtyler|powerbook waves at phildrone
(22:29:56) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what does the mockup look like?
(22:29:56) cocoadevbot: no idea, rtyler|powerbook
(22:30:10) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: the mockup is over here: http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/IMG_1142.JPG
(22:30:10) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(22:30:50) rtyler|powerbook: I think the cocoadevbot will be a good means for storing links :-P
(22:30:54) rtyler|powerbook: he seems to do it well
(22:31:18) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what does the mockup look like?
(22:31:19) cocoadevbot: i don't know, rtyler|powerbook
(22:31:20) phildrone: Provided he doesn't crash :)
(22:31:25) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: well, then, what is the mockup
(22:31:25) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: i haven't a clue
(22:31:28) rtyler|powerbook: BLAST!
(22:31:33) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: I found out why that is ;)
(22:31:45) rtyler|powerbook: it was actually something I said that he parsed funny
(22:31:59) phildrone: Ah.
(22:32:43) phildrone: I like it (the mockup).
(22:32:53) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: Omni is http://www.omnigroup.com/
(22:32:53) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(22:33:24) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: I'm not sure how "collaboration" would work for that, just doing an audio note taking thing would be _very_ easy
(22:33:29) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who is phildrone
(22:33:30) cocoadevbot: phildrone is a drone who works for Yahoo!
(22:33:30) phildrone: I was thinking a great use-case would be the classic slide presentation (ug Powerpoint).
(22:33:46) rtyler|powerbook: zomgpowerpoin
(22:35:18) phildrone: Getting really fancy (and beyond an initial version). But you have the audio file of the presentation marked by slides. Each slide then has a slide image, and a collaborative set of notes.
(22:36:00) phildrone: But that's just one use case.
(22:36:12) phildrone: Exactly, start with a simple way to take notes on audio.
(22:37:24) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: you want to take over the display bit? (the wave form display thing?) :-P
(22:37:35) phildrone: Another use case is of course cocoa radio itself. Mark out each question that's asked.
(22:37:45) phildrone: I could give it a shot.
(22:38:02) rtyler|powerbook: but how would we tack this onto an existing file format?
(22:38:14) rtyler|powerbook: Quartz 2D FTW!
(22:38:21) phildrone: Funny, I've been reading through "Programming with Quartz"
(22:40:39) phildrone: Those displays are what, volume for left and right channel, one + and the other plotted as -?
(22:40:40) rtyler|powerbook: fancy that :)
(22:40:55) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: just pop open garageband :)
(22:40:58) rtyler|powerbook: or iMovie
(22:41:12) rtyler|powerbook: I really hope there's an easy way to do it via Quartz or Core Audio or *something*
(22:41:17) rtyler|powerbook: so it looks just like Apple's stuff
(22:41:36) phildrone: None of which is on this corporate laptop but I'll hunt around :)
(22:41:49) rtyler|powerbook: no mac at home? :)
(22:41:56) phildrone: This is my mac at home.
(22:42:04) phildrone: And work.
(22:42:25) phildrone: I've been wanting to get a dev box, but I'm holding out for intel :(
(22:42:44) rtyler|powerbook: they're out.... ;)
(22:43:12) phildrone: Not for a dev box.
(22:43:47) phildrone: (mini or tower). I guess I could get an iMac, but I've got a monitor.
(22:45:00) rtyler|powerbook: dual monitor iMac :D
(22:45:08) phildrone: Right :)
(22:45:18) rtyler|powerbook: they've got DVI out ^_^
(22:58:50) zac: http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/audipad.png
(22:58:57) zac: very simple mockup
(23:02:09) phildrone: Nice!
(23:02:26) phildrone: What's with the red in the waveform?
(23:02:43) zac: there is absolutely no reason to have red in the waveform
(23:02:52) zac: it just was in the picture I got from google :)
(23:03:06) phildrone: Ah, ok. Just curious if you had a meaning behind it.
(23:03:30) phildrone: I like the text floating around the image. Can you guys pull that off?
(23:04:03) phildrone: The standard Cocoa rtf stuff doesn't handle that.
(23:04:10) zac: yeah
(23:04:26) zac: it would be cooler if those were little views all in themselve
(23:04:27) zac: s
(23:04:33) zac: so you could drag them around and rearrange them
(23:04:50) zac: and in that case, they would just NSCells or something
(23:04:59) zac: and we could easily do an NSImage with text next to it
(23:07:52) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is the mockup
(23:07:52) cocoadevbot: i guess the mockup is over here: http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/IMG_1142.JPG
(23:08:01) rtyler|powerbook: no, cocoadevbot, the mockup is over here: http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/audipad.png
(23:08:01) cocoadevbot: okay, rtyler|powerbook.
(23:08:12) zac: where is the mockup?
(23:08:13) cocoadevbot: well, the mockup is over here: http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/audipad.png
(23:08:17) rtyler|powerbook: :)
(23:08:18) zac: who has the mockup?
(23:08:25) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: zac has the mockup
(23:08:26) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: sorry...
(23:08:26) zac: I can't find the mockup
(23:08:34) rtyler|powerbook: bloody hell
(23:08:43) zac: who is zac?
(23:08:43) cocoadevbot: rumour has it zac is a Cocoa developer and works on SearchMagic
(23:08:49) zac: what is SearchMagic?
(23:08:50) cocoadevbot: somebody said SearchMagic was an unfinished piece of crap.
(23:08:55) zac: HOW DARE YOU
(23:08:58) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(23:09:50) phildrone: I gotta get back to work.
(23:10:22) rtyler|powerbook: zac: so, where do we start :)
(23:11:13) zac: finding a way to record audio
(23:11:28) rtyler|powerbook: that's easy IMO
(23:11:28) rtyler|powerbook: Core Audio FTW
(23:11:46) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: the GPL is the GNU General Public License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License)
(23:11:47) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(23:12:06) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: Core Audio is a fairly low-level API for dealing with sound in Apple's Mac OS X operating system.
(23:12:06) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(23:12:33) rtyler|powerbook: zac: you want to start an Audipad page on the wiki?
(23:12:35) zac: yeah, it isn't quite that simple
(23:12:51) zac: maybe in a second
(23:13:01) rtyler|powerbook: it's not simple, but I don't think it's going to be near as difficult as some of the underlying logic that will go behind the note taking stuff
(23:13:24) zac: ooh, i love that stuff
(23:13:30) zac: I think gathering the data will be easy as hell
(23:13:39) zac: the hard/interesting part is displaying it in a meaningful way
(23:13:46) rtyler|powerbook: yep
(23:13:52) rtyler|powerbook: relating the data is going to be interesting
(23:13:55) rtyler|powerbook: what about a data format?
(23:14:37) zac: i think we should try and put the audio in a pretty standard format in a bundle
(23:14:51) zac: and then have an xml file for the data
(23:14:59) rtyler|powerbook: agreed
(23:15:06) zac: and failing that, serialize some object for the text/pictures/time sync info
(23:15:33) rtyler|powerbook: well, let's design this from the start as a single user thing
(23:15:38) rtyler|powerbook: adding in collaboration should happen down the line
(23:15:41) rtyler|powerbook: once something is "working"
(23:15:49) rtyler|powerbook: so, let's talk what we need in terms of data
(23:16:50) zac: I just meant archive when I said serialize
(23:17:03) zac: java crept in there...
(23:17:07) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(23:17:25) ***rtyler|powerbook sets up the cocoalogbot
(23:19:49) zac: should I wait on it before I start waxing technologic?
(23:20:00) rtyler|powerbook: bloody ISP
(23:20:05) rtyler|powerbook: waxing technologic?
(23:20:07) rtyler|powerbook: O_o
(23:25:56) phildrone: http://www.cocoadev.com/index.pl?ArkonnektSound
(23:32:46) rtyler|powerbook: see, not too hard to record sound ^_^
(23:34:48) zac: well, it is hard to get it into a nice format
(23:35:11) zac: it is easy to get it into a byte array...it is easy :)
(23:35:33) rtyler|powerbook: well, we just need to encode it to a file, and store that locally, generating that waveform should be interesting
(23:35:40) rtyler|powerbook: QTKit FTW!
(23:42:10) rtyler|powerbook: zac, phildrone, so, where should we start? :-D
(23:43:14) phildrone: I've been reading about displaying waveforms in a custom view.
(23:43:50) phildrone: Looks pretty fun actually. Don't know how the hell we'll get out the waveform, but displaying it will be fun :)
(23:44:06) rtyler|powerbook: "how the hell we'll get out the waveform" what do you mean?
(23:44:36) phildrone: Well ...
(23:47:06) rtyler|powerbook: do we want to do this open source (i.e. should I setup a source forge project?)
(23:47:50) zac: I wouldn't worry about that right now
(23:48:06) zac: I'd rather just set up a public svn server somewhere
(23:48:13) phildrone: The view will have some kind of resolution. Lets say it's a 30 minute podcast and the view is 300 pixels long. Each pixel represents 30/300 or 1/10min or 6 second. And lets say we interpolate to across every 5 pixels. That means I need the value of the aggregate power level of the sound for every 30 seconds across the 30 minute podcast. Now how do we get those numbers out of an mp3 file?
(23:48:40) zac: you just get the values from each frame
(23:49:00) zac: and then you can let cocoa antialias the graphics for you when you scale it down
(23:49:49) rtyler|powerbook: blech, do we have to do svn? :-P
(23:50:03) phildrone: Just get the values from each frame? What frame?
(23:50:45) rtyler|powerbook: phildrone: from my understanding, a frame would just be a "snapshot" in time at time 'x' of the audio file, that's all
(23:50:58) rtyler|powerbook: how you acquire that info is a little beyond my understanding of audio processing
(23:51:26) zac: oh, mp3s are just frames of audio data
(23:51:27) rtyler|powerbook: I'm thinking, if we can make solid components of this, we can release and reuse bits and pieces elsewhere, like the wave form bit
(23:51:56) zac: nothing in computers can be continuous, so the mp3 file is broken up into discrete frames
(23:52:07) rtyler|powerbook: zac: you want to go ahead and start turning that mockup into an actual GUI?
(23:52:27) rtyler|powerbook: do either of you have a good solid server for svn/cvs/perfoce? :-P
(23:52:28) zac: hm, maybe
(23:52:41) zac: I could probably host it at school
(23:52:44) rtyler|powerbook: zac: I agree, we should do each "item" as a custom view thing
(23:52:48) zac: I have a g4 just sitting around
(23:52:50) rtyler|powerbook: then dragging would be nice
(23:52:50) phildrone: I don't.
(23:53:02) rtyler|powerbook: I have plenty of machines, just no public IP (yet)
(23:53:08) rtyler|powerbook: if we want to wait a week or so .... ;)
(23:53:18) rtyler|powerbook: my FreeBSD machine is sitting here idly ;)
(23:53:41) phildrone: I wonder what the coffee shop would say ... :)
(23:54:31) zac: at school I get an outside ip
(23:54:40) zac: which could be easily tied to svn.cocoadevhouse.org
(23:54:42) rtyler|powerbook: zac: with SSH opened up?
(23:54:46) zac: yeah
(23:55:01) rtyler|powerbook: that works, got OS X server? :P
(23:56:45) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: OWF is the Omni Web Framework
(23:56:45) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(23:57:45) zac: you don't need OS X server
(23:58:07) zac: it might be nice...but everything it can do...regular can do
(23:58:08) rtyler|powerbook: I know, but OS X Server is soooooo coool ;)
(23:58:34) zac: well, we don't have money for that stuff until we release our product and open up our tip jar!
(23:58:56) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(23:59:02) ***rtyler|powerbook tosses a quarter in
(00:11:22) rtyler|powerbook: ugh, who'd of thought building two enormous code bases at the same time would slow me down a lot
(00:16:27) phildrone left the room.
(00:22:55) phildron1 [n=aaronson@adsl-209-233-19-181.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] entered the room.
(00:28:10) rtyler|powerbook: phildron1: welcome back :)
(00:28:10) rtyler|powerbook: who is phildron1
(00:28:10) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is phildron1?
(00:28:10) cocoadevbot: phildron1 is a Yahooligan...
(00:28:10) cocoadevbot: phildron1 is probably a Yahooligan...
(00:28:18) rtyler|powerbook: there we go, a little delayed
(00:28:37) phildron1: sorry, had to move the computer.
(00:28:41) rtyler|powerbook: phildron1: you ever worked with Omni's open source framewokrs?
(00:28:47) rtyler|powerbook: frameworks* too
(00:28:53) phildron1: Nope. Cocoa newbie I be.
(00:29:00) rtyler|powerbook: Arrrr
(00:29:08) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who is phildron1
(00:29:08) cocoadevbot: phildron1 is a Yahooligan...
(00:29:23) rtyler|powerbook: no, cocoadevbot, phildron1 is a cocoa newbie
(00:29:23) cocoadevbot: okay, rtyler|powerbook.
(00:29:38) rtyler|powerbook: http://www.omnigroup.com/developer/sourcecode/
(00:29:51) zac: what about em?
(00:30:09) rtyler|powerbook: well, i'm building them now, going to see how they "feel" :-P
(00:30:25) rtyler|powerbook: specifically "OFMessageQueue & OFQueueProcessor - Writing stable multithreaded applications is an error prone process. These classes help de-fang the savage beast. "
(00:30:27) rtyler|powerbook: ;)
(00:32:52) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what are Cocoa Bindings?
(00:32:52) cocoadevbot: Cocoa Bindings are hard to debug
(00:32:58) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(00:33:18) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is writing stable multithreaded applications?
(00:33:19) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: i don't know
(00:33:25) rtyler|powerbook: rats, didn't parse that last line up there
(00:35:25) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is Core Data?
(00:35:26) cocoadevbot: i heard Core Data was part of the Cocoa API in Mac OS X, first introduced in Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger. It allows any sort of hierarchically organized data,
(00:35:49) rtyler|powerbook: no, cocoadevbot, Core Data is part of the Cocoa API in Mac OS X, first introduced in Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger. It allows any sort of hierarchically organized data, notably XML documents, to be serialized using a single set of objects.
(00:35:50) cocoadevbot: okay, rtyler|powerbook.
(00:37:44) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: where is the mockup?
(00:37:45) cocoadevbot: the mockup is over here: http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/audipad.png
(00:37:54) rtyler|powerbook: that's handy
(00:39:24) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is Audipad
(00:39:24) cocoadevbot: Audipad is an idea for a CocoaDevHouse project, to implement a note-taking application. Notes are taken in reference to an audio file's timeline. The UI Mockup is here (http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/audipad.png)
(00:39:31) rtyler|powerbook: zac: that look about right?
(00:39:52) zac: yeah
(00:39:59) zac: although, the idea could be generalized a little bit more
(00:40:13) zac: like just having a timeline at the top
(00:40:24) zac: with the ability to visualize audio and/or video on it
(00:40:38) zac: video by using maybe some key frames
(00:41:11) zac: i'll be thinking about that
(00:41:18) rtyler|powerbook: video should probably be a 0.2 feature ;)
(00:41:55) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is NeXTStep
(00:41:55) cocoadevbot: i think NeXTStep is the original object-oriented, multitasking operating system that NeXT Computer, Inc. developed to run on its proprietary NeXT computers (informally known as "black boxes").
(00:41:59) rtyler|powerbook: w00t
(00:42:07) rtyler|powerbook: it's learning so much ^_^
(00:42:28) ***rtyler|powerbook waits patiently on the Omni Frameworks to build
(00:42:31) phildron1: Had to go run and watch the mens 500m (no spoiler)
(00:42:46) rtyler|powerbook: heh, it's cool
(00:43:56) rtyler|powerbook: I wish the bot was smart enough to where, if it didn't find a match for a question, it'd do a quick search on Wikipedia
(00:44:13) zac: add it
(00:44:18) zac: go!
(00:44:26) rtyler|powerbook: Perl? yeah fucking right ;)
(00:44:54) zac: its easy
(00:45:11) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is Smalltalk
(00:45:11) cocoadevbot: Smalltalk is an object-oriented, dynamically typed, reflective, programming language designed at Xerox PARC by Alan Kay, Dan Ingalls, Ted Kaehler, Adele Goldberg, and others during the 1970s, influenced by Sketchpad and Simula. Objective-C is heavily based on Smalltalk
(00:45:21) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who is zac
(00:45:21) cocoadevbot: hmmm... zac is a Cocoa developer and works on SearchMagic
(00:45:26) zac: all you have to do to parse all of wikipedia is p=/$.*()#%$///\\/\/5%%***#;
(00:45:34) ***rtyler|powerbook roffles
(00:45:41) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who am I?
(00:45:42) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: i haven't a clue
(00:45:45) rtyler|powerbook: me neither :'(
(00:45:53) zac: cocoadevbot: who are you?
(00:45:54) cocoadevbot: i am a stupid bot
(00:46:06) rtyler|powerbook: heh
(00:46:20) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who is rtyler|powerbook
(00:46:20) cocoadevbot: no idea, rtyler|powerbook
(00:47:07) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook is what happens when you piipe rtyler to a powerbook
(00:47:08) cocoadevbot: wish i knew, rtyler|powerbook
(00:47:14) rtyler|powerbook: damnit, it's not liking the |
(00:47:38) rtyler|powerbook: or the what
(00:47:59) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook is the result of piping rtyler to a powerbook
(00:48:00) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(00:48:04) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: who am I?
(00:48:05) cocoadevbot: somebody said rtyler|powerbook was the result of piping rtyler to a powerbook
(00:48:18) rtyler|powerbook: I SAID THAT YOU FOOL!
(00:48:40) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is nil?
(00:48:40) cocoadevbot: hmmm... nil is my greatest friend, and my worst enemy
(00:48:45) ***rtyler|powerbook giggles
(00:48:53) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is nil?
(00:48:55) cocoadevbot: nil is probably my greatest friend, and my worst enemy
(00:49:15) rtyler|powerbook: no, cocoadevbot, nil is ${name} 's greatest friend, and ${name}'s worst enemy
(00:49:16) cocoadevbot: okay, rtyler|powerbook.
(00:49:18) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is nil?
(00:49:19) cocoadevbot: i think nil is ${name} 's greatest friend, and ${name}'s worst enemy
(00:49:22) rtyler|powerbook: damn!
(00:50:06) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: forget nil
(00:50:06) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: I forgot nil
(00:50:21) zac: cocoadevbot: unforget nil
(00:50:22) cocoadevbot: zac: excuse me?
(00:50:32) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(00:50:46) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: nil is $who's greatest friend, and $who's worst enemy
(00:50:47) cocoadevbot: OK, rtyler|powerbook.
(00:50:50) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is nil?
(00:50:51) cocoadevbot: nil is probably rtyler|powerbook's greatest friend, and rtyler|powerbook's worst enemy
(00:50:55) rtyler|powerbook: woot
(00:50:59) zac: cocoadevbot: initiate self-destruct sequence
(00:50:59) cocoadevbot: zac: i'm not following you...
(00:51:08) zac: what is nil?
(00:51:09) cocoadevbot: nil is, like, zac's greatest friend, and zac's worst enemy
(00:51:15) rtyler|powerbook: omfg liek 4 realz?
(00:51:36) rtyler|powerbook: what is the weather like?
(00:51:44) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is the weather?
(00:51:44) cocoadevbot: the weather is nice
(00:51:54) rtyler|powerbook: NO IT'S NOT! it's so cold :(
(00:51:58) zac: cocoadevbot: what is the weather in 73069?
(00:51:59) cocoadevbot: wish i knew, zac
(00:52:02) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: forget the weather
(00:52:03) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: I forgot weather
(00:52:05) rtyler|powerbook: hehe
(00:52:07) zac: it should be able to do that :)
(00:52:27) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: weather for KAGC
(00:52:50) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: nslookup cocoadevhouse.org
(00:52:50) cocoadevbot: cocoadevhouse.org is 68.142.234.135
(00:52:52) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(00:52:55) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(00:53:03) rtyler|powerbook: HEH, it always segfaults on nslookups
(00:53:10) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is seg faulting
(00:53:10) cocoadevbot: seg faulting is, like, when gremlins infect the application's memory, causing it to cry and run away
(00:53:49) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: internic cocoadevhouse.org
(00:53:49) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(00:53:49) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(00:54:17) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: weather for KAGC (0.43.6+)
(00:54:55) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: imdb for clerks
(00:54:55) cocoadevbot: clerks can be found at http://www.imdb.com/M/title-substring?title=clerks&type=fuzzy
(00:55:00) rtyler|powerbook: w00t
(00:55:12) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: foldoc for leet
(00:55:13) cocoadevbot: leet may be sought in foldoc at http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=leet
(00:55:41) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: foldoc for hax0r
(00:55:41) cocoadevbot: hax0r may be sought in foldoc at http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=hax0r
(00:55:58) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: change 100 USD to DEM
(00:56:01) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: Don't know about "100" as a currency
(00:56:02) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(00:56:02) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(00:56:10) rtyler|powerbook: wtf
(00:56:15) rtyler|powerbook: soome error handling eh?
(00:56:35) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: status
(00:56:35) cocoadevbot: Since Mon Feb 13 22:56:31 2006, there have been 32 modifications and 42 questions. I have been awake for 3 hours, 4 seconds this session, and currently reference 124 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
(00:56:55) rtyler|powerbook: zac++
(00:57:02) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot--
(00:57:02) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: sorry...
(00:57:16) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: zac++
(00:57:21) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: cocoadevbot--
(00:57:24) rtyler|powerbook: karma for cocoadevbot
(00:57:25) cocoadevbot: cocoadevbot has karma of -3
(00:57:30) rtyler|powerbook: karma for zac
(00:57:30) cocoadevbot: zac has karma of 2
(00:58:29) rtyler|powerbook: karma for rtyler
(00:58:30) cocoadevbot: rtyler has neutral karma
(00:58:31) rtyler|powerbook: karma for rtyler|powerbook
(00:58:31) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook has neutral karma
(00:58:41) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: rtyler+++++++++++++++++
(00:58:44) ***rtyler|powerbook giggles
(00:58:46) rtyler|powerbook: karma for rtyler
(00:58:46) cocoadevbot: rtyler has karma of 1
(00:58:49) rtyler|powerbook: heh
(00:59:06) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: tell cks about Audipad
(00:59:36) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: tell me about Audipad
(00:59:36) cocoadevbot: i guess Audipad is an idea for a CocoaDevHouse project, to implement a note-taking application. Notes are taken in reference to an audio file's timeline. The UI Mockup is here (http://homepage.mac.com/zacwhite/images/temp/audipad.png)
(00:59:43) rtyler|powerbook: hrm
(01:01:32) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: translate to german Cocoa
(01:01:33) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: Kakao
(01:02:08) rtyler|powerbook: life is so boring when builds take up all your computer's power :(
(01:14:26) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is port 65000
(01:14:26) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: i don't know
(01:15:03) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: die
(01:15:04) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: excuse me?
(01:15:13) rtyler|powerbook: fine, i'll kill you myself
(01:15:14) cocoadevbot left the room (quit: "regrouping; bbiab").
(01:21:49) cocoadevbot [i=tyler@sand.geekisp.com] entered the room.
(01:21:58) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is Mac Error 1
(01:21:59) cocoadevbot: Mac Error 1 is ( dsBusError ) (bus error) **DS Error Table**
(01:22:05) rtyler|powerbook: there we go :)
(01:22:28) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is port 65000
(01:22:31) cocoadevbot: port 65000 is devil - Devil TROJAN
(01:22:40) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is rfc 250
(01:22:41) cocoadevbot: rfc 250 is Some thoughts on file transfer. H. Brodie. Oct-07-1971. (Format: TXT=2446 bytes) (Status: UNKNOWN)
(01:23:29) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is rfc 1149
(01:23:30) cocoadevbot: somebody said rfc 1149 was Standard for the transmission of IP datagrams on avian carriers. D. Waitzman. Apr-01-1990. (Format: TXT=3329 bytes) (Status: EXPERIMENTAL)
(01:23:36) ***rtyler|powerbook dies laughing
(01:24:40) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is mac erro -49
(01:24:41) cocoadevbot: rtyler|powerbook: bugger all, i dunno
(01:24:43) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: what is mac error -49
(01:24:44) cocoadevbot: mac error -49 is ( opWrErr ) File already open with with write permission **File System Error**
(01:28:48) rtyler|powerbook: cocoadevbot: status
(01:28:49) cocoadevbot: Since Tue Feb 14 02:21:43 2006, there have been 0 modifications and 6 questions. I have been awake for 7 minutes, 5 seconds this session, and currently reference 5533 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
(01:39:44) zac is now known as zac|sleep
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